38 replies to this topic

[Jalapeno]

I'm just curious which of the available distributor search engines is your fave and why?

[cmroma]

I voted for EPS (but I'm sure you meant ESP:D :D - ).

This is my vote only because this is the main product I have used for years. I do not have much experience with any of the others.
I get very good pricing and service for the ESP product, so no reason to look elswhere....YET!

Craig

[Allan]

i have more than one fav. Sage and DC and PMPB. I like ESP but the cost is too high for my taste.

[DBeavers]

I did the free 30-day trial offer with ESP last year and signed up before it expired the second time (Hurricane Rita took my home office offline for 5 weeks after we returned from the evacuation.) Paul Steinberg readily offered me a second trial period.

At just $50 per month, ESP definitely pays for itself in time saved. I love being able to do my research in my home office at any hour of the day - not just when suppliers will answer their phones.

I had been considering SAGE, but heard too many complaints about the product pricing being outdated when I attended the SAGE showcase in Houston.

I like PMDM.com and DC, but really appreciate the "Centerstate" presentation that allows me to generate complete quotes with the product image at a faster rate than ever before.

Out-of-date prices -If I constantly have to double check the prices with the factory or hard-copy catalog, I don't need that search engine.

Dennis

[krier32]

Dennis,

I tried the free trial over this past month and have to say I like it. While I'm not sure I want to get tied down in any kind of a monthly payment right now, I will definitely do so in the near future. I was just wondering .. once you sign up for the full version, can you then customize the printouts from Centerstage? I entered all my info in the settings page but it wouldn't print my info out on the pages.

Just wondering if this is a trial thing only or not.

Don

[kristiy]

Yes, Don, you can. You can print out or email (or burn to CD) your Centerstage Presentations in .pdf format, with your name, company name, phone, city.state, etc. Also, you have the option of customizing what info displays on the presentation, and you can either print the catalog pricing or show your own customized pricing. Nice photos on that presentation too.

Also, there is ACE, which lets you see a scanned image of the catalog, though it can be blurry at times, but it helps if there is a question as to the info ESP is showing (like if I can't figure out WHY the exact same item is showing up twice with different pricing, I may go to the catalog and see that the way the catalog prices it, it is trying to show me separately what the catalog has on one page- different row of pricing for 2 colors or for 1 day production,etc).

I like ESP because I knowit is the most complete, and I get a new disk several times a year, which keeps it updated. I have not tried the online version yet though. I have found that although I like the free options (pmdm/ DC, etc) they are NOT as complete, and are missing, not just suppliers, but also whole product categories.

Oh- also, when I am searching for something on ESP, (and yes there is a learning curve as to how to search for things-right words, etc) I like that I can "pre-set" it with my fave suppliers, or those that give me special pricing (or give K & B special pricing) then I can sort my search by supplier ratings, and my fave suppliers appear first with a big checkmark.

[kristiy]

:eek: sorry for the book!

[DBeavers]

Don,

It's a month to month charge of $50. No contract or long-term commitment like $900 per year up-front.

My quote's definitely look more professional, and I can do more per hour than the old email or cut & paste of the past.

I'm sure I'm getting a good return on my $50 per month investment. Too busy to try to quantify it, but good nonetheless.

Dennis

[Chris Miller]

ASI quoted me $250 / month for ESP so i'm renewing SAGE. Both have incorrect info so it doesn't matter to me anyway. I verify everything before I write an order now.

[Tom Aufman]

I use ESP because it works for me. It is a real time saver for me.
My clients are overwhelmed by Center Stage.

Many times I am on the phone with a prospect and I have my Assistant email them the proposal. Most of the time I close the sale on one call..tea

[A G]

I use various websites, including pmdm.com (usually my first, but NOT my last choice). I like how they list how many products of a given type they list by each supplier (though it isn't always accurate). That can help one determine a "Power Supplier" for a given item. Usually, the more of a given item, the more likely that supplier may have what you or your client wants.

I then search through DistributorCentral (DC). I use a third site that I won't mention here. Lastly, I sometimes look at SearchStar.com. However, their redundancy of the same supplier for the same item is never-ending (almost). But, occasionally, they will list a supplier for an item the first three sites don't.

We then update our database, and put out a report for a given product from that. We can then look at most products on the supplier's website (or find a hard copy catalog if they don't have one, or if we have trouble finding the item).

How often do any given Supplier's website NOT have current information? Some are not changed in YEARS. Others, are a few months to a half a year or so behind. Current 'hard copy' catalogs are sometimes the most reliable source of information (if you have one). Other times, for certain suppliers, their website has the most current info. It all depends on the Supplier, of course.

I appreciate suppliers who have an easily downloadable PDF catalog EVEN IF THEY PRINT & SEND OUT a hard copy catalog! The hard copy I use to look through. The other I use for presentations.

And, for smaller suppliers especially that don't have very many items in their line, a quick downloading PDF file catalog (not all are quick) can be good both for them and us (sometimes we don't always print out a downloaded catalog—in fact, most of the time we don't—besides the cost for color printing (which is less since I bought a used color laser printer a couple of years ago, and got a decent monthly service fee/toner refill rate), it just takes far too much time to print but a few out.

Suppliers with hard copy catalogs they mail are best IF they don't put confidential info (address, phone number, website) on them. Its hard to trust customers and suppliers. DistributorTalk has had reported in it how often Suppliers are prone to interject this bit of confidential or that in their 'Customer Safe' websites. And, while a customer may not buy from the supplier, they may take the info and try to shop the order through another distributor!!! This has happened to us often enough. (This world is FULL of such treachery)! And yes, some also go direct, and the Supplier has no qualms in selling directly to them REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY MAY PARROT OVER AND OVER TO US!

I wish PPAI would do more, much more with UPIC. However, they seem content to allow DC, SAGE and others to carry the water for them in this area in regards to ASI. ASI still does the most BECAUSE THEY MAKE A LOT OF MONEY AT IT. I am not against ANYONE, EVEN 'ASI' from making a lot of money. Its just when the value/cost ratio is so low. They do not that much more for the money than what they did 25 to 30 years ago, in my opinion, given how much more value one receives for their money in so many other areas of life.

And, really, if you look at it hard, and think about it, with the "show" business both PPAI and ASI have now, that gives them BOTH a Big disincentive to do a lot more for distributors to get information efficiently, compare it much more efficiently, etc. That would eventually (they think) hurt their trade show gigs (and, I'm not saying that it might)!

But, I would be in favor of that which benefits Distributors most! There isn't really a 'trade' or an 'industry' without Distributors. Suppliers could (and do) sell direct! But, our efforts, as distributors, to offer many more choices to clients much more efficiently and with greater creativity, and hence, effectiveness, would be lost! It is not all reducing everything down to a commodity, and then bidding it out to the lowest bidder (although it sometimes seems it is headed ever more in that direction, whether for the better or the worse)!

In my opinion, ASI is the Microsoft of the promotional products business. Unfortunately, there is not an 'Apple' nor an 'Oracle' or 'Google' or others, really, yet, to compete at a high enough level. We've tried SAGE, and some parts of it are fairly good. They are (possibly) ascending.

Both ASI and SAGE, though, are, again, in my opinion, too provincial and too parochial in their approaches. And while DC does a lot of good, neither they nor SAGE have as many Suppliers THAT ARE MORE "IN" OUR INDUSTRY compared to ASI. I wish they did.

Somebody could do a LOT better than ANY or even ALL of the 'players' in our industry do!

— A G

[dusty]

Dennis, Kristi:

Just curious to learn whether you have test driven SAGE?

[A G]

aapromotions said:

But if you hate what some see as the predatory practices of ASI, you will never like ESPonline.

AA,

Don't know how long you've been in this business, or, if you have for a while, how much you know or how good your memory is.

Certainly, competition from SAGE, and DC and others (primarily SAGE, I would suppose) have FORCED 'ASI' to become far more competitive. I have one Distributor friend who is still paying ASI (I believe) through the nose for ESPonline (and they tell me its far worse [i.e., slower] than what they had with the CD's).

However, if SAGE sinks (however much one may or may not like them or any of their principals), and no one else rises to counter ASI, their prices may eventually get jacked up again. Competition CAN indeed make pricing better.

Another distributor friend dropped using ESP a couple of years ago because of how high ASI hiked ESP service prices.

If you want to know who the "arrogant *****" are, you're dealing with the devil with BOTH ASI and SAGE, in my modest and yet most accurate opinion.

When the people who own SAGE were a Supplier, I know of "numbers" they did to ME, and a Supplier Rep, besides all of the stories I heard were told to the other supplier the 'supplier' portion of their business got sold to about them.

I am sure that the 'ATTITUDE' that those who own & operate SAGE didn't go away with that sale and the move to be strictly in the info business they are now in.

However, I have seen ASI & their people act and be equally as arrogant!

When CD's were first coming out, it was IMPACT Advertising (FL) who started with a catalogs on CD system. ASI later followed them, did a better job (because they have mountains of cash, thanks to all of you guys!). They pushed IMPACT out of that biz.

I talked to Marvin Spike, when he headed ASI probably 15-17 years ago or so about the CD stuff (which they did later). But I tried to get them to incorporate many more things that would have helped distributors much more (while still making them a handsome pile of money). However, you talk about cheap! They wanted to squeeze me for all my ideas (free consulting), and do it themselves without giving me even a dime!

When they dropped me a few years later as a distributor, I decided I could do without them. Sometimes things are felt personally. I'm sure they didn't care squat, one way or the other. But I DID! And, my friend, I STILL DO!

The one distributor friend who uses the Technologo Services doesn't use it with ESP, since he dropped it. He may pick it up againâ??I don't know. But he's doing well with a presentation he & his people at his little distributorship devised that "wows" clients, from what he reports. But that is MUCH MORE Technologo (out of Canada), which one can order direct from them for not much (he paid slightly over $200 for the level of service he wanted), than I suppose it is ESP.

I'm doing dandy without any ONE of their help. They ALL help me, to one degree or another!

I again assert that someone, some time, some way, may come out with something that will blow the socks off of ALL of them! I hope it happens sooner than later!

â?? A G

[A G]

AA,

When I was much younger, ASI was sort of like the 'Wizard of Ahs!' They had all knowledge. You'd call their 'Help Line' to get information (in a few hours, occasionally, sometimes days later) for a source/supplier/s on an item not shown in their regular publications. The leads were usually underwhelming.

Then, someone told them (I suppose), they could jack up their rates, and make much more money. (The people who own ASI use to also own the Franklin Mint. They also, I believe, had/have an interest in one of the TV shopping stations, among a number of big money-making concerns). That's neither here or there in one way. But, when you realize that this is NOT THEIR bread and butter (like it is for me, and perhaps you too), you may come to realize, sooner or later, that their interests may not be your interests AS MUCH AS IT IS SIMPLY IN THEIR INTEREST TO SELL YOU SOMETHING.

Even though ASI has been in this business for decades, as their family has owned and worked businesses in other industries, they don't really know the battles you and I have to fight day after day.

I spend TOO MUCH of my life trying to put the pieces together in an industry whose number of suppliers, and the suppliers' number of product offerings have grown logarythmically, while suggested resale profit margins have dropped 10% or more over all (and, remember, the difference between selling on an 'A' and selling on a 'C', though it is only 10% difference from 'cost of product' percentage, the difference in profit is a WHOPPING 50% ) ! ! ! - and you and I are expected, with skyrocketing costs, and too little help from so many corners, to not only make a buck, but make VERY BIG BUCKS, to cover Health Insurance, Retirement, Employees, Rent/Leasing/Buying property, etc, etc.

I'd like to be able to go home at 4:30 or 5:00 and be more with my family. I'd like to be able to make sufficient money to take vacations, save for retirement, and pay for taxes without major gyrations in getting there.

Perhaps most of you are smarter than I am. If you are, kudos to you! I'm trying to do what THEY (ASI, SAGE, etc) don't seem to do.

— A G

[LOGO emPower]

I ask everyone to compare TLN's DS3 Virtual Sample system to Technologo or Sage. Best of all, not only do we have a better system - it is FREE....

[Tom Aufman]

A G said:

I use various websites, including pmdm.com (usually my first, but NOT my last choice). I like how they list how many products of a given type they list by each supplier (though it isn't always accurate). That can help one determine a "Power Supplier" for a given item. Usually, the more of a given item, the more likely that supplier may have what you or your client wants.

I then search through DistributorCentral (DC). I use a third site that I won't mention here. Lastly, I sometimes look at SearchStar.com. However, their redundancy of the same supplier for the same item is never-ending (almost). But, occasionally, they will list a supplier for an item the first three sites don't.

We then update our database, and put out a report for a given product from that. We can then look at most products on the supplier's website (or find a hard copy catalog if they don't have one, or if we have trouble finding the item).

How often do any given Supplier's website NOT have current information? Some are not changed in YEARS. Others, are a few months to a half a year or so behind. Current 'hard copy' catalogs are sometimes the most reliable source of information (if you have one). Other times, for certain suppliers, their website has the most current info. It all depends on the Supplier, of course.

I appreciate suppliers who have an easily downloadable PDF catalog EVEN IF THEY PRINT & SEND OUT a hard copy catalog! The hard copy I use to look through. The other I use for presentations.

And, for smaller suppliers especially that don't have very many items in their line, a quick downloading PDF file catalog (not all are quick) can be good both for them and us (sometimes we don't always print out a downloaded catalog—in fact, most of the time we don't—besides the cost for color printing (which is less since I bought a used color laser printer a couple of years ago, and got a decent monthly service fee/toner refill rate), it just takes far too much time to print but a few out.

Suppliers with hard copy catalogs they mail are best IF they don't put confidential info (address, phone number, website) on them. Its hard to trust customers and suppliers. DistributorTalk has had reported in it how often Suppliers are prone to interject this bit of confidential or that in their 'Customer Safe' websites. And, while a customer may not buy from the supplier, they may take the info and try to shop the order through another distributor!!! This has happened to us often enough. (This world is FULL of such treachery)! And yes, some also go direct, and the Supplier has no qualms in selling directly to them REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY MAY PARROT OVER AND OVER TO US!

I wish PPAI would do more, much more with UPIC. However, they seem content to allow DC, SAGE and others to carry the water for them in this area in regards to ASI. ASI still does the most BECAUSE THEY MAKE A LOT OF MONEY AT IT. I am not against ANYONE, EVEN 'ASI' from making a lot of money. Its just when the value/cost ratio is so low. They do not that much more for the money than what they did 25 to 30 years ago, in my opinion, given how much more value one receives for their money in so many other areas of life.

And, really, if you look at it hard, and think about it, with the "show" business both PPAI and ASI have now, that gives them BOTH a Big disincentive to do a lot more for distributors to get information efficiently, compare it much more efficiently, etc. That would eventually (they think) hurt their trade show gigs (and, I'm not saying that it might)!

But, I would be in favor of that which benefits Distributors most! There isn't really a 'trade' or an 'industry' without Distributors. Suppliers could (and do) sell direct! But, our efforts, as distributors, to offer many more choices to clients much more efficiently and with greater creativity, and hence, effectiveness, would be lost! It is not all reducing everything down to a commodity, and then bidding it out to the lowest bidder (although it sometimes seems it is headed ever more in that direction, whether for the better or the worse)!

In my opinion, ASI is the Microsoft of the promotional products business. Unfortunately, there is not an 'Apple' nor an 'Oracle' or 'Google' or others, really, yet, to compete at a high enough level. We've tried SAGE, and some parts of it are fairly good. They are (possibly) ascending.

Both ASI and SAGE, though, are, again, in my opinion, too provincial and too parochial in their approaches. And while DC does a lot of good, neither they nor SAGE have as many Suppliers THAT ARE MORE "IN" OUR INDUSTRY compared to ASI. I wish they did.

Somebody could do a LOT better than ANY or even ALL of the 'players' in our industry do!

— A G

I do a lot of business and use only the tools that save me time and increase my bottom line. That would be..... asi..

asi has been by best bargin for over 26 years. ... tea