91 replies to this topic

[morhuiz]

I am late jumping into this duscussion, but it is so good to hear that my frustrations with Bic and Saratoga are shared by others. I thought it was just me they didn't want to do (fair) business with, but I guess not.

[lgoutman]

Shannon,

I am on Amsterdam's mailing list! I have never requested their catalogs. They apparently buy lists of businesses and mass mail.

Lou Goutman
Advertising Alternatives
248-363-8994

[Chris Miller]

Lou,

You are right. I think they get lists off of the secretary of state's website or something. It seems like they manage to get a catalog to every company in every state.

[reprogfx]

Furious. I am absolutely livid.

Now that this forum exhists, can we distributors unit and have some sort of "heads up - whistle blowing" that can be powerful enough to force these suppliers to make it their business to let us know they DO NOT sell to end users.

If i'm going to consider establishing a business relationship with a supplier I WANT TO KNOW...do you sell in any way direct? And those that do NOT are those suppliers I will make very happy with my continued repeat business.

Enough already. I want to know who these snakes are!

Can't wait to toss out the BIG CRAP and the Saratoga CRAP...and enough already with the positive line CRAP sucking up the space in my garbage can!

Renee Tagliavia
Reprographic Assoc Inc. / SE Michigan

[gartonspecialties]

Well...according to the ASI Register all suppliers identify whether they sell only through distributors or other outlets.
Of course, if they are a subsidiary of a larger company that could be misleading.
According to the "register" Windmill Press/Saratoga do not sell to others.

Who are you to trust?

[bdadco]

gartonspecialties said:

Well...according to the ASI Register all suppliers identify whether they sell only through distributors or other outlets.
Of course, if they are a subsidiary of a larger company that could be misleading.
According to the "register" Windmill Press/Saratoga do not sell to others.

Who are you to trust?

Because a customer brought me a pen the other day that amsterdam had sent them trying to sell to them direct, I looked the pen up in the saratoga catalog and yes it was the same pen. I then called saratoga pen company and hinted that they were the same company or that they were some how related and I was told that they were no relation, perhaps a brother company without parents, thus they must all be Bastard companies. wonder is this how Dan Webster would define this? And can you really trust anyone that is a Bastard

[MalibuSurfrider]

All of us who are frustrated with BIC and Saratoga, can simply rally behind one of their competitors who doesn't "whore" - a one poster put it - our beloved industry. If someone can name a few good pen companies that have quality products, competitive prices, and do not in any way, shape or form sell direct to end users, then I would only buy from those companies. Let's be fair to ourselves first and foremost. :)

[PromoUltraSource]

MalibuSurfrider...
There ain't no such entity in an open marketplace (general distribution policy) -- it's just something that's avoided being disclosed publicly for obvious reasons in this industry.
Free Enterprise? Unrestricted Trade? Certainly you're familar with these commonly tossed about terms in the "real" world of business.
That's why the industry stresses "relationship" selling. "Value-added' service ... reasons more than price for a buyer to consciously choose to purchase through you rather than alternative sources ... yes, even direct or at the wholesale level.
A customer's perceived value is indeed his reality that dictates what he buys and who he buys it from.
The best advice here is discover and know your customer's needs and prioities and pursue those you have the capacity to satisfy. There's always "cheaper" alternatives so selling on price alone is clearly not a stable foundation to position your business as a distributor as buyers can and do seek out the cheapest way to procure goods & services.
You have to uncover a reason that overrides that rationale with your desired client base.
Levels of SERVICE & CREATIVITY are excellent avenues to start with.
And tough as it may sound, all buyers are not definite customers to all distributors.

[goldnpc]

I really like the excellent customer service that BIC provides and enjoy working with them.
Dana - Golden Printing & Promotional
ASI 209409
www.goldenprinting.com

[nowellwischmas]

It's true.

[DBeavers]

bdadco said:

Because a customer brought me a pen the other day that amsterdam had sent them trying to sell to them direct, I looked the pen up in the saratoga catalog and yes it was the same pen. I then called saratoga pen company and hinted that they were the same company or that they were some how related and I was told that they were no relation, perhaps a brother company without parents, thus they must all be Bastard companies. wonder is this how Dan Webster would define this? And can you really trust anyone that is a Bastard

They claim there's no relationship between Amsterdam and Windmill Press, yet their pens with metal clips display the same windmill logo. And the windmill logo fits both of their names. :mad:

Dennis

[DBeavers]

MalibuSurfrider said:

All of us who are frustrated with BIC and Saratoga, can simply rally behind one of their competitors who doesn't "whore" - a one poster put it - our beloved industry. If someone can name a few good pen companies that have quality products, competitive prices, and do not in any way, shape or form sell direct to end users, then I would only buy from those companies. Let's be fair to ourselves first and foremost. :)

Malibusurfer,

You might want to check out Hub Pen, ASI #61966 - They carry both the economical plastic pens as well as the laser engraved brass pens. Great customer service and never a charge for rush service.

You should also look as Leed's Business Accessories, ASI #66887, www.leedsworld.com
They have a great selection of pens to go along with their pad folders and other leather and vinyl stationery products.

Dennis

[aclay]

I will agree that hub pen is great. I also like BIC, yes i do lose some customers to online distributors who use BIC as a loss leader. I stress service and imprint quality and don't have any problems selling bic, sometimes I have to lower my margins but taking the pen orders leads to other orders.

[bdadco]

just have to wonder if leeds sellingout to a french owned company is going to hurt their business??

DBeavers said:

Malibusurfer,

You might want to check out Hub Pen, ASI #61966 - They carry both the economical plastic pens as well as the laser engraved brass pens. Great customer service and never a charge for rush service.

You should also look as Leed's Business Accessories, ASI #66887, www.leedsworld.com
They have a great selection of pens to go along with their pad folders and other leather and vinyl stationery products.

Dennis

[tedp]

Actually, it's worse. It's a French company that's owned my a middle eastern company.

bdadco said:

just have to wonder if leeds sellingout to a french owned company is going to hurt their business??

[gartonspecialties]

I have never had a problem with BIC's customer service or imprint quality. I just have decided based on what I consider to be "unfair" practices by them to avoid offering BIC to my customers. I don't miss any business (that I'm aware of) by offering products from other companies instead.
When selling BIC you are not selling from a level playing field.
At least in my part of the country...NOTHING is more important to buyers than PRICE.

[gartonspecialties]

A customer called me wanting to know what my price was on the "Bic Stic". When I told them they mentioned a mail order catalog they had received that had a much cheaper price. I happen to have picked up a copy of that catalog somewhere and when I checked it they were right.
I was livid and certain the price in the M.O. Cat. couldn't be right as the pricing was below MY COST.
I called BIC and inquired. The response I got was that that company sold A LOT of their pens so they get a better deal. Okay...I understand why BIC would do such a thing but it seems to me to be highly unethical to offer ASI distributors one set of prices and let mail order undersell them. After all..those of us who are in direct sales and actually go door to door have higher overhead when considering time, travel, etc.

[impctads]

I think we'd be knuckleheads if we thought that Windmill Press/Amsterdam Printing and Goldstar/National Pen Co didn't utilize our client data for their direct mail lists! Every distributor no matter what search tool you use should rate these suppliers poorly as far as I am concerned, and if you belong to other talk forums, get the word out to other distributors so they don't feed the sharks that are swimming in our waters!!!

Dallah Reese
:mad:

[resa]

I also had a similiar experience with BIC Pens. My client placed an order with me and then cancelled as she found them online for less then I can purchase them. I called BIC for a price and was given the catalogue price.
On a later date, after losing the order, I called my BIC rep again and was told they would work with on better pricing.
What is happening to our industry?
Don't the suppliers have enough "sales people" ...US out there already!
I for one am getting tired of working hard and having our ideas and orders taken from us. We are a large group. What can we do?

[Chris Miller]

resa said:

What can we do?

I am starting to look into some possible opportunities with suppliers. We are certainly a big group on this site, and I think we could negotiate some better pricing. I am seeing what I can do.