91 replies to this topic

[Chris Miller]

Anyone know who this company is: www.amsterdamprinting.com

I get catalogs from them all the time addressed to my other business. If this is a distributor, they must be getting rediculously low pricing from a supplier.

Any ideas?

[Chris Miller]

I just answered my own question by looking them up on upic.org

A distributor for sure, but they definitely get some good pricing. I don't know how they stay in business.

[DBeavers]

Chris,

You'll be using Amsterdam anytime you sell from Windmill Press and their Saratoga Line catalogs. Look at the logo on the pen clips and you'll see the four blades of a Dutch style windmill.

I use them only when customers request a matching item they received in the mail.

Dennis

[Chris Miller]

I see the windmill blades you're talking about but other than that I see no relation.

However, if this is true they will never see any of my business.

[ideaguy]

Chris, you are so right about their pricing. I have had clients who have bought BIC pens from them (instead of me) at a few pennies more that what I was paying. I don't know if they buy blanks direct from BIC and print them themselves, or have some type of special deal based on volume with BIC. Either way, it is unfair to the loyal distributors of BIC. And, I like BIC as a supplier.
I also noticed the same scenario when I was selling to the Hotel industry.
BIC sells direct to the Hotel Industry with the similar pricing as Amsterdamprinting.
I had heard that when BIC first started, they were selling to the Hotel Industry directly, and have kept this arrangement -pretty much pushing the adspec distributors out of the loop. I did get a pen order from a Hotel, but lost the re-order because they got smart and dealt direct with BIC... In all fairness though, I talked with my Regional BIC rep many years later, and they said that if you ever get into that situation, they will work with us closer on it. But, you know never really know. And besides, the profit has been cannibalized and compromised for us - the adspec distributors.

Also, in the State of the Industry 2004/THE COUNSELOR, they are ranked #13. It looks like they are now part of the Taylor Corp (including Amsterdam Printing and Litho, Taymark, and Executive Greetings) - 88.2 Million in Sales in 2003.

By the way, congratulations with distributortalk.com. I think this is something that has been sorely needed. I don't know of any others in our industry. Keep up the good work.

DPI-Chris said:

Anyone know who this company is: www.amsterdamprinting.com

I get catalogs from them all the time addressed to my other business. If this is a distributor, they must be getting rediculously low pricing from a supplier.

Any ideas?

[Chris Miller]

Thanks for the kind words regarding the site. I put a lot of work into it, and when I hear from people like yourself who enjoy it, it keeps me motivated to do more with it.

As for BIC, I had no idea they sell direct to the hotel industry. I know they say they send out direct mailings all the time but supposedly these mailings are supposed to say something like "To buy bic look up promotional products in your yellow pages".

If this is true with Bic I most likely won't work with them any longer either. I just can't see a point in supporting a supplier who is out there competing with me for my business.

[aclay]

On the BIC issue there are a few internet suppliers and other who use them as a loss leader. They get them in on the pen business but look at the rest of the pricing it is normally right out of the book sometimes higher. I spoke to my BIC rep and one of the VP's at a dinner meeting on the issue and that is what I was told. Also I do sell a few small hotels, talk to you BIC rep and they will work it out with you.

[bdadco]

ideaguy said:

Chris, you are so right about their pricing. I have had clients who have bought BIC pens from them (instead of me) at a few pennies more that what I was paying. I don't know if they buy blanks direct from BIC and print them themselves, or have some type of special deal based on volume with BIC. Either way, it is unfair to the loyal distributors of BIC. And, I like BIC as a supplier.
I also noticed the same scenario when I was selling to the Hotel industry.
BIC sells direct to the Hotel Industry with the similar pricing as Amsterdamprinting.
I had heard that when BIC first started, they were selling to the Hotel Industry directly, and have kept this arrangement -pretty much pushing the adspec distributors out of the loop. I did get a pen order from a Hotel, but lost the re-order because they got smart and dealt direct with BIC... In all fairness though, I talked with my Regional BIC rep many years later, and they said that if you ever get into that situation, they will work with us closer on it. But, you know never really know. And besides, the profit has been cannibalized and compromised for us - the adspec distributors.

Also, in the State of the Industry 2004/THE COUNSELOR, they are ranked #13. It looks like they are now part of the Taylor Corp (including Amsterdam Printing and Litho, Taymark, and Executive Greetings) - 88.2 Million in Sales in 2003.

By the way, congratulations with distributortalk.com. I think this is something that has been sorely needed. I don't know of any others in our industry. Keep up the good work.

Amsterdam printing is indeed a relative of windmill press and saratoga pen company maybe a sister, brother or a bastard child, anyway ask windmill press and they will say they are owned by the same people but are different company they deny relationship. All in all they are the same people with 3 different company names so they can sell to distributors and direct to end users by mail.

You know kinda like National Pen Company and Goldstar owned by same people one sells direct to end user via mail outs with free sample pens included to end users the other sells only to Distributors without spec samples and the very same pens. Talk about loyalty to Distributors.

[Linda L]

Yes, Amsterdam is the Direct Mail division (distributor) of the Saratoga/Windmill companies. I don't know which came first.

My understanding is that if your client has the Amsterdam catalog and wants that item at that price, that you can call Saratoga and they will give you the order at that price. But, regardless, their Direct Mail division is a competitor with cheap pricing.

I haven't heard of any real suspicion or complaints of Saratoga/Windmill using our enduser's information for the Amsterdam mailings. But the Amsterdam catalog already goes out to tons of small businesses.

[ArdeoTech_Admin]

Same story I've gotten from them several times. Same product, same company, lower prices to end user than they give to us.

They've lost all of my business!

[ideaguy]

Someone will need to confirm this about the Hotel Industry - this was my experience probably 13 years ago.....I don't know definitively if it holds true today
as I have not dealt with any hotels for pens since. Actually, I believe it was the Hotel/Restaurant industry..they had a booth at that tradeshow too.

DPI-Chris said:

Thanks for the kind words regarding the site. I put a lot of work into it, and when I hear from people like yourself who enjoy it, it keeps me motivated to do more with it.

As for BIC, I had no idea they sell direct to the hotel industry. I know they say they send out direct mailings all the time but supposedly these mailings are supposed to say something like "To buy bic look up promotional products in your yellow pages".

If this is true with Bic I most likely won't work with them any longer either. I just can't see a point in supporting a supplier who is out there competing with me for my business.

[fred the sled]

BIC has a good quality product. The good news is, their are alot of suppliers that have as good a product or better, for less! Their prices have gone up and they no longer offer the 2 day FedEX service. I use BIC but not as much as I used too.

[ideaguy]

The "loss leader" comment does not hold water with me.

And, I am sure that when you are selling to a hotel with BIC working a special price with you ...that the profit is much much smaller than what you would normally make. Is this true or am I wrong about the profit there?

aclay said:

On the BIC issue there are a few internet suppliers and other who use them as a loss leader. They get them in on the pen business but look at the rest of the pricing it is normally right out of the book sometimes higher. I spoke to my BIC rep and one of the VP's at a dinner meeting on the issue and that is what I was told. Also I do sell a few small hotels, talk to you BIC rep and they will work it out with you.

[Linda L]

As for BIC, I had no idea they sell direct to the hotel industry. I know they say they send out direct mailings all the time but supposedly these mailings are supposed to say something like "To buy bic look up promotional products in your yellow pages".


BIC has been selling imprinted pens directly to the hotel industry for many years. I believe it is very large volume orders and the price is really, really low. If you manage to find a hotel who doesn't know they can order direct from BIC, then contact BIC and request the hotel pricing. They have no problem giving you that order at the special hotel discount. (Although I don't know if there is a min. quantity issue for "hotel" pricing.)

It's a pain when you don't know this stuff because you just feel foolish when you hand the prospect/client a BIC catalog, thinking they had been getting their pens from another distributor and not from BIC.

[bdadco]

Concerning Bic Graphics and the pens I am forced to sell for them because my customers insist on buying them. I do have a real problem with bic selling direct to end users, I ran into this the first year I was in this business and had lunch with my bic rep a few days later, she told me that it was true, but that bic would never directly try to sell to any customer that I have purchased pens for.

Another problem I have with bic pens is often I have customers that ask me what the MEX that is right above the clip on all CS and TS pens, (it is tiny, but it is there, take a look for yourself.) all I can do is shrug my shoulders and tell them that this means that these pens are made in Mexico. The next problem I run into is when customers ask me if Bic is really owned by a french owned company. Again I can only shrug my sholders and answer, "So I have been Told." Still I have several hundred customers that insist on buying Bic pens because for the price they write better than most other pens??

I sell thousands of GB-1 pens from Gotham Pen & Pencil company that is marked USA on the clip for anyone to see, and the pen is so simlar to the bic cs few people that were not in the pen business could ever tell the difference, except for the price. I do sell the GB-1 made in USA from Gotham Pen for 8 cents less than I can sell the bic CS for.

And Chirs I do greatly Appreicate you and all you are doing with this site, I hope and Pray that your labors will be greatly rewarded from all you do.

[ideaguy]

I guess that you have come across this scenario too. You are right about looking foolish from it, and you also look foolish when the client has an Amsterdam Printing catalogue in front of them. Their perception is that you are trying to rip them off and/or take advantage of them. I have also come up against a situation with regard to custom golf balls. I don't remember the manufacturer, but they were sending mailings out to major corporate buyers. When my client called to place the order with me, I could not meet the price. It was lower than what I was paying to the manufacturer. The manufacturer told me that they send out occasional promotions as such direct to buyers. These type of scenarios "whore" (for lack of a better word) our industry and the integrity of the adspec distributor network.

Linda L said:

As for BIC, I had no idea they sell direct to the hotel industry. I know they say they send out direct mailings all the time but supposedly these mailings are supposed to say something like "To buy bic look up promotional products in your yellow pages".

BIC has been selling imprinted pens directly to the hotel industry for many years. I believe it is very large volume orders and the price is really, really low. If you manage to find a hotel who doesn't know they can order direct from BIC, then contact BIC and request the hotel pricing. They have no problem giving you that order at the special hotel discount. (Although I don't know if there is a min. quantity issue for "hotel" pricing.)

It's a pain when you don't know this stuff because you just feel foolish when you hand the prospect/client a BIC catalog, thinking they had been getting their pens from another distributor and not from BIC.

[Chris Miller]

To be honest, this all makes me feel ill. I am beginning to think that there are a number of suppliers who don't take us distributors seriously and only want us as an "extra" stream of orders.

Very frustrating.

[ideaguy]

I had a friend from college who took over his Dad's leather business in our industry. His thought was that if the Adspec Distributors aren't bringing in the business to him, he needs to go out and solicit directly in order to keep growing and/or maintain his business. And, he would sell it at sharper and/or comparable prices that he would sell to the distributors! Sometimes, you do what you've got to do. I don't always agree with this, but I can understand it.

This reminds me, I presented a promotional item to a large sports facility.
It was a unique ice scraper and they loved it. They ended up buying 10,000 or
20,000 of them directly from my supplier, not me. When I called and complained to the supplier, they told me that the order was processed through their retail division, and not their adspecialty division. And, that they were not aware of it, and that they could not do anything about it in terms of paying us a commission. Why are they selling a logo'd item through their retail division? The supplier's name escapes me at the moment (they were in New York), but I was steaming.

That's in the past now, but it never seems to behoove me when this type of thing arises. In some instances, I am very careful not to name the manufacturer to my
customer, if need be.

DPI-Chris said:

To be honest, this all makes me feel ill. I am beginning to think that there are a number of suppliers who don't take us distributors seriously and only want us as an "extra" stream of orders.

Very frustrating.

[Beth]

I asked my BIc rep how some companies onthe web can sell their items at almost cost. Her comment was they are banking on their cash rebate they will get at year end to offset their extrememly low margin. It's a loss leader for them. She also told me Bic does not sell directly to the hotel industry. What to believe?

[logoclick]

ideaguy said:

Chris, you are so right about their pricing. I have had clients who have bought BIC pens from them (instead of me) at a few pennies more that what I was paying. I don't know if they buy blanks direct from BIC and print them themselves, or have some type of special deal based on volume with BIC. Either way, it is unfair to the loyal distributors of BIC. And, I like BIC as a supplier.
I also noticed the same scenario when I was selling to the Hotel industry.
BIC sells direct to the Hotel Industry with the similar pricing as Amsterdamprinting.
I had heard that when BIC first started, they were selling to the Hotel Industry directly, and have kept this arrangement -pretty much pushing the adspec distributors out of the loop. I did get a pen order from a Hotel, but lost the re-order because they got smart and dealt direct with BIC... In all fairness though, I talked with my Regional BIC rep many years later, and they said that if you ever get into that situation, they will work with us closer on it. But, you know never really know. And besides, the profit has been cannibalized and compromised for us - the adspec distributors.

Also, in the State of the Industry 2004/THE COUNSELOR, they are ranked #13. It looks like they are now part of the Taylor Corp (including Amsterdam Printing and Litho, Taymark, and Executive Greetings) - 88.2 Million in Sales in 2003.

By the way, congratulations with distributortalk.com. I think this is something that has been sorely needed. I don't know of any others in our industry. Keep up the good work.

If you think Amsterdam has good Bic Pen prices then you should look at Kaeser and Blair., Inc . They are a Distributor too...