76 replies to this topic

[Ideaman06]

For years now I have "eaten" the overage charges from suppliers .... it's always been 4 -5 percent of the total order .... just the cost of doing business in our industry my dad used to tell me ....

Well the cost is getting out of control .... A supplier just charged my credit card an additional 15% over their "estimate" on a prepay .... :mad:

I base my selling price on their estimate .... it's what I quote my customer and is what my customer expects to pay ..... these overage charges are charged after the fact .... and would cause ill feelings if I tried to re-bill the customer after they've written a check ....

Is anyone else running into this? :confused:

[jschmitt]

I would always put +/- 5% Over/Unders on any invoice you do. None of my customers have ever balked at it even the customer would do 50,000 pieces that they did 5% over never complained. Just a word of advise.

[Joe Denhoff]

You need to tell them up front about overages and why they occur. If they want no overs than they need to expect possibly unders.

[bdail]

All of our sales orders (which are signed by the client) have a disclaimer that says 10% over/underrun is possible, You will be billed for the exact quantity shipped.

The only time I ever had a problem in my 15 years in the business was when the vendor shipped 30% over - the items were plastic bags and I've been told that can happen more often than not. The client finally agreed to take them and in this case we split the difference with them.

[jacquez]

Joe Denhoff said:

You need to tell them up front about overages and why they occur. If they want no overs than they need to expect possibly unders.

Joe,
This is NOT a flip reply. However, sometimes I wonder exactly what IS the reason overages occur. I understand on plastic bags or something like that but why are we always looking at 5% over on calendars, travel mugs etc. Why is it that certain vendors always overrun by 5% and others always ship right on the button? Bic, who is mass printing inexpensive pens, always ships exact amounts. However, I don't think in the years since Norwood has purchased AUI I don't have an invoice that is not 5 - 7% over. It is an industry standard now. Thank heaven it is not an industry standard in the banking industry; when you deposit a check for 105.56 you can expect a 5% over or under. I know that sounds stupid, but I am sure that is how many of our clients feel. They want 250 calendars not 262. Just venting. This industry standard will not change until we as distributors say - I'm mad as hell and won't take any more - OVERS!

[micrguy]

I don't even tell my clients about the over/under charge and if they ask I just tell them that it is standard in the printing/promo industry. Don't take the hit, charge your clients and you just gave yourself a 5% raise. Also, do not forget pad your freight. I pad my freight $5-20 per order depending on the size of the order. You do 10 orders a week, you just gave yourself another $2600 raise for the year and you did not have to do any extra work.

[Chris Miller]

This is a big complaint of mine as well. Some suppliers just throw it in now to make more money. See my other related thread here from back in June if you have time......

http://www.distribut...hread.php?t=785

[Chris Miller]

Like I said in the thread above - I completely understand where some items that are mass printed will end up with +/-. In some cases more items have to be put into production just to ensure you get the number that you ordered. This should only apply to flat printed items though that come from large sheets, etc. It makes no sense for pens, mugs, and other items like that to have overruns.

[Schlep]

Chris Miller said:

Like I said in the thread above - I completely understand where some items that are mass printed will end up with +/-. In some cases more items have to be put into production just to ensure you get the number that you ordered. This should only apply to flat printed items though that come from large sheets, etc. It makes no sense for pens, mugs, and other items like that to have overruns.

They used to print overages in case the print did not come out correct they could replace them with the overage.

Now they charge us up front for the 10-15% overage and surprize it comes out with the exact % over.

I find that the honarable companies do not charge it and I will steer my customers away from companies that charge it.

Also I had a company say they would do 10% overage and when the order came in it was 15% over, I called and returned the 5% at their expense it was the last time the did it.

[Joe Denhoff]

I tell my clients overs are necessary because when we print an item we have to print more than ordered. Why? Because at the end of the run there will be rejects and after the rejects are thrown out we will have enough to cover their order. With glassware, we need to send overs to cover for breakage. If it is an event like a dinner and a certain amount of gifts are needed I can see the client wanting no overs. Than it is a problem and we end up with samples. Its not so bad if the samples are useful. We ended up with 36 candles once, great in case of a power outage. We had a client order 5000 plastic bags once. The overs were 20% and he went nuts. So we kept 1000 bags. The bags were great for dirty diapers. I was happy to have them. After the bags were gone the client was in a panic as he needed 500 bags for an event. Guess what, he had to order 5,000 bags and he signed he would take the over run from 10%-30%.
I tell the clients you will use the overs and you will be glad you have them

[advertisingnov]

I find it's best to state the percentage of over/unders on order forms & tell clients accounts for imperfections. For those few clients that complain, they can request "no overs", however may get unders or vice versa. For those clients I require full prepayment, I simply include maximum of overs & few dollors extra for freight. You can always refund the difference. Other clients, I state if any unders/overs or add'l freight, will be invoiced after order is received.

Hope this helps,
Joyce

[Lizardbeth]

. . . and they have no problem with it. I wouldn't eat those myself. OP, holy cow that would be awful and not an acceptable cost of doing business in my book. I have the unbearable cost of doing business tied into my non-existent sample policy, but that's another story.

No, I explain before or after the fact that most printing equipment is automated and in attempt to make sure you get at least as many as you've ordered, the equipment is set for 5-10% over the number of pieces to account for any breakage and misprints. Then I tell them that they are invoiced for the amount they get whether that's over or under the amount they ordered.

When we have this discussion at the time of the order placement, I couch it in terms of the benefit to them of being sure they are ordering enough and not too many based on this industry policy and practice. My experience has been that you can request no underruns and not pay a premium, but if you request no overruns, the supplier may charge a surcharge. I let the client know that they can request no underrun and they generally seem happy this way.

One of these times I'm going to get burned for not explaining this industry anomoly beforehand, but most our clients are pretty reasonable when they understand the policy.

Yes, I know we almost never get an underrun, but just when you need extra, that's when you get fewer! I know some people think it's a racket and maybe I'm naive, but the whole automated equipment explanation makes sense to me and I go with it.

[jacquez]

When I hire a caterer to serve for 45 persons. The caterer may plan on a little extra, however, they do not bill me for 49 persons. Come on. This has been going on for the 35 years I have been in the business. It has become a profit center. I would rather a supplier pad something else rather than I have to look like a rip off artist to my clients. We accept it and very few complain. So it goes on. I am waiting for the New York Times to bill me for 57 weeks and deliver 52. The explaination would be we gave you 5 extra during the year in case some of them didn't have every section.
I make the same explaination all of you do, print the same disclaimer on all acknowledgments and invoices. It's just another profit center.

[Ideaman06]

Thanks for the feedback on the overage charges .... one point I would like to make is that I was taught in the begining to order one or two for samples .... and I always have .... I now have over 250,000 samples in the warehouse and this is a good thing .... (until I decide to move .... oh well), but when you order 1000 business card magnets and receive 1050 .... this is not an overage this is an upcharge .... and my clients have been schooled against this for many many years .... it's a real problem for me .... that 50 magnets represents better than $5.00 on every order .... place a hundred business card magnet orders in a year and thats $500.00 bucks .... and we're only talking about one item .... it's gotten out of hand!

[Joe Denhoff]

My client just ordered 500 gift coins. We shipped her 540. She is thrilled to get such beautiful and consistant quality. This is the type of client we dream for. If the client doesn't mind because they can use the extras than it is no big deal. Have another client who orders 13 different calendars every year. He doesn't care about the overs. Gotta love it!

[royster13]

Clyde you obviously using the wrong business card magnet supplier....Done a hundred or more orders with Tradenet and never seen a bill for overage....And if you ever took the time to count you will find there are always a few extra....

Same with Bic....

These are 2 of the best suppliers in the business....

[jacquez]

Royce,
Three Comments / Questions
1. If you look back through the thread I mentioned Bic. They NEVER charge for overs.
2. You have your orders shipped to you prior to going to you clients?
3. You TAKE the time to count magnets and pens? Good for you!

[royster13]

1 - Bic is one of the best.....
2 - I hand deliver every order I can...Another selling opportunity and a chance to get paid....
3 - I have done a few orders where I was preparing mailings for clients using Bicpens and/or Tradenet magnets....In every case I still had extras after I stuffed the required number of envelopes....

[promoartwork]

I can understand that there are some cases where overruns are a necessity. Although, I have important customers, that because of their tight budgets demand for me to use suppliers that ship exact order quantity. Particularly, municipalities with strict invoicing policies.

-- These customers have been buying promo products long enough to know, that there are options. There are alot of quality suppliers out there, who will run exact order quantity, and not add a charge to do this.

-- These customers who purchase thousands of dollars annually, would go to a competitor, solely for the overrun reason. If I don't spend the time, to select these suppliers, another Distributor will.

---I appreciate suppliers who have the more up-to-date imprinting systems, allowing exact order quantity. Or, is it that they are just going above and beyond what other suppliers do? Those suppliers must have an excellent quality control department, too. ----

-- Another point, many customers will accept the "overs".....great. Although, I believe companies, like Kaeser & Blair do not give commission to their Authorized Dealers, for the overruns. So, no advantage financially to me, for the extras. :)

[frazier]

Ideaman06 said:

For years now I have "eaten" the overage charges from suppliers .... it's always been 4 -5 percent of the total order .... just the cost of doing business in our industry my dad used to tell me ....

Well the cost is getting out of control .... A supplier just charged my credit card an additional 15% over their "estimate" on a prepay .... :mad:

I base my selling price on their estimate .... it's what I quote my customer and is what my customer expects to pay ..... these overage charges are charged after the fact .... and would cause ill feelings if I tried to re-bill the customer after they've written a check ....

Is anyone else running into this? :confused:

When I first started a supplier said "Remember when you quote our product to your customer ALWAYS tell them there is an insudtry standard of 10% over or under of the product ordered." Having run a print shop for years and dealing with items don't always make it through the printing process we knew that this probably applied to Ad Specialties too. I was always welcoming their advise and I did tell my clients that, and I did charge them for the overages if they occured. Sometimes this can run into lots of $$$$$$$$$. Hardly affordable to a small or large business. Therefore you must always ask the supplier about this. If you tell them you want "No Overs or Unders they usually comply and if they balk then find another supplier. With today's new processes this should no longer be an issue..Good luck!!:) :) :) :)