58 replies to this topic

[FindingPromo]

I heard that a number of Suppliers had not only product, but some of their personal belongings stolen from the show out of their booths.



Is this the kind of show we want to support?

[Chris Miller]

Sad... anyone looking to start a small business. LOL. ASI never ceases to amaze me. :rolleyes:

[jimknecht]

FindingPromo said:

Is this the kind of show we want to support?

So I watched the video, & it talks about this being one of the better shows for Dallas. It shows a supplier, who doesn't normally exhibit, giving the show a try. It shows 2 distributors, having a down year (like most everyone else), attending to learn more so they can offer new product to their existing client base.

So why would you not want to support this show? Granted, it is not west coast, but how is this one show any different than any other. Things get stolen at every show I've ever attended... including the Expo. ASI always provides a free pass to suppliers so they can invite distributors that do not subscribe to their services.

So Mark, do you support this show now? Are you having misgivings? If so, exactly why?

[jimknecht]

Chris Miller said:

Sad... anyone looking to start a small business. LOL.

I see you are laughing now, but a few years ago, when you knew next to nothing about this industry, you sure wanted to join. I guess now that you are in, you don't want any more distributors joining your ranks.

ASI has always been about getting new people into the industry & offering training & products. Now they offer tradeshows to further their education & allow them to build relationships with suppliers.

Why would I not want to support this show. It is good for my business. Mark, why would you not want to support this show? Is it not good for all the suppliers you rep? I would bet they think it is worth support, so why do you feel differently? Maybe I don't understand reps, but I would think you would support any industry event that brings more business to the folks that pay your salary.

Edited by jimknecht, 14 February 2010 - 07:30 AM.

[FindingPromo]

Jim,

I am not interested in a show, that does not have a screening process that adequately introduces potential participants about the industry, or does not have enough adequate security, where suppliers can be assured of reasonable security during the show.

I am very interested in a show that brings suppliers in front of qualified resellers so they can share ideas and successes for a true opportunity to do business. By qualified, I do not mean that they know their EQP's before their ABC's.

There needs to be some type of industry active practice prior to, and/or sponsoring of some sort by a current industry professional. Least of all they need to get as I like to say "the captain crunch secret de-coder ring," explaining some of the basics.

For the amount of money a supplier is charged for these events and/or a roadshow, it's not a Supplier or a Rep's job to explain ABC's or (PQR's for that matter) of industry life, like we many times end up having to . . . . or explaining that (with a floor sample showing so) that yes, this product can be decorated with a logo . . . . . or that no, these samples are not for your kid's grammar school class, but for active resellers to consider showing to their customers and prospects.

Most all the regional associations have a consistent minimum level of industry experience and/or sales prior to being admitted for primary show hours. This I believe is how and why we are seeing that the regional associations have already this year, found great success with their events, as suppliers have chosen to invest in proven entities, and industry professional distributors.

jimknecht said:

Is it not good for all the suppliers you rep? I would bet they think it is worth support, so why do you feel differently? Maybe I don't understand reps, but I would think you would support any industry event that brings more business to the folks that pay your salary.

Having my Supplier partners invest in shows, where they have to send their Senior people to train new entrants to the industry is not a good investment. I would say that someone who collects a subscription fee or entrance fee, should have some primary responsibility to provide basic training before entrance.

Just spending money on more shows, is not a good investment, simply to spend to buy more business. Investing in quality events that bring pre-qualified entrants is a much better investment.

If as you say, these folks are provided some basic training before coming, then that would be a different story, but it does not seem so. And by the way, I am not paid a salary.

Edited by FindingPromo, 14 February 2010 - 01:11 PM.

[jimknecht]

Mark, are you saying all those thousands of distributors that attended ASI Dallas were not qualified? Were you even there? Are you talking about assumptions or facts?

Are you saying ASI has no screening whatsoever? That the owner of Joe's Tire Barn is welcome in to these shows? Do you know for a fact they had inadequate security? Compared to what? I was there & saw security at entrance doors & walking the aisles?

I still don't understand why your "interests" matter. Do you not represent your supplier clients? You saying all of them wish to miss the ASI shows & the thousands of distributors in attendance?

Seems to me you are making some awfully large assumptions about the distributors that attend these shows. If I were a distributor that attended this show, I would be rather offended. Yes, there are some rookies there but you know what, there are tons of experienced sales folks there too. I guess too, you & your suppliers must be bucking the industry trend & must have more business than you can deal with. Me, I want to meet & greet EVERY distributor out there. Doesn't bother me in the least if they are brand spanking new & don't yet understand our lingo. Actually, and this is where you & I differ the most, I much prefer such rookies. The way I see it, they have yet to establish relationships with any of my competitors, so I will get a much higher ROI from them. They are interested in learning & receptive to my marketing. If I need to explain how this all works, I consider it an honor to help them. I don't consider them scum... not worthy of my time. Maybe it is because I'm from Mississippi & used to being on the bottom, but I don't look down on anyone... especially a rookie distributor trying to improve their lives.

You see, I attend tradeshows to stay acquainted with my existing client base, but also wish to meet new folks. Whether they are rookies or have been doing this all their lives, I could really care less. I just want to meet them & talk with them. I attend to meet folks like those two ladies wanting to grow their business by adding new suppliers. Just seems to me, your supplier clients would want to meet them also.

Funny thing is, I find we get our best ROI at ASI shows. Yet here you are questioning if any of us need to support their shows?

I know you are not paid a salary.

Edited by jimknecht, 14 February 2010 - 02:16 PM.

[Chris Miller]

Quote

Are you saying ASI has no screening whatsoever?

You know they don't Jim, and you're saying now that this is ok with you. Makes good sense too because ASI is bringing you new prospects, and that's what you want. Don't forget about all those loyal distributors of yours that you're throwing under the bus though, by supporting a company who dillutes THEIR marketplace!

At some point it becomes stupid marketing because you are just spending your money to replace you're already loyal customers with rookies who won't be 1/2 as loyal as the guys you helped them to replace.

[royster13]

The tv piece said that any one who wanted to start a business could attend.....So they did not have to be active in the industry to get in....

[jimknecht]

Chris Miller said:

You know they don't Jim, and you're saying now that this is ok with you. Makes good sense too because ASI is bringing you new prospects, and that's what you want. Don't forget about all those loyal distributors of yours that you're throwing under the bus though, by supporting a company who dillutes THEIR marketplace!

At some point it becomes stupid marketing because you are just spending your money to replace you're already loyal customers with rookies who won't be 1/2 as loyal as the guys you helped them to replace.

So then explain to me the difference between UPIC's requirement for entry into the industry & ASI's. I don't see any real difference. There must be something huge differentiating them, as y'all are only picking on ASI... as usual.

From what I read, both require the new distributor to have placed orders with 3 industry suppliers? Don't I remember PPAI requiring 10 a few years back? With PPAI, if you purchase a franchise thru someone like Press A Print, you can come right on in... no experience whatsoever required. So how is PPAI protecting your interests?

Why are you so worried about competition & keeping them out of the industry? Seems to me, if you were so interested in keeping all we do restricted, you would lock down DT where only registered members could view the content. From my perspective, you are no different than PPAI or ASI. You want as much access as possible. The more involved, the more money you make... just like ASI & PPAI.

[jimknecht]

royster13 said:

The tv piece said that any one who wanted to start a business could attend.....So they did not have to be active in the industry to get in....

You believe everything you hear on the news? You ever talked with someone who has been interviewed by a reporter? I have, multiple folks. Every one has stated how they distort the truth... every single one.

So as opposed to worrying about what some reporter says, why don't you look at the requirements for entry? In all my many years of working a show, I have never had anyone come by my booth that was not interested in selling in our industry. Are we making a mountain out of a mole hill?

Edited by jimknecht, 14 February 2010 - 02:41 PM.

[Chris Miller]

Instead of me explaining things, Jim - how about you explaining this one to us:

How is selling direct online any different than using ASI to help put you in touch with end users? The only difference is you're having someone else do your dirty work, while some suppliers are doing it themselves.

Please don't keep going down the path of defending ASI and acting like you dont KNOW for a fact that they are diluting the industry with part timers who want to give our business a try. You've been on here for many years and know what the rest of us know. Did you forget their giant ad in the computer magazine?!?! :mad:

Heck, just ask them. They are pretty open about it.

[Tucker]

Speaking of "samples for your kids school", I've heard on several occassions that the "hand grabbing" at the Expo was WAY down this year. Presumably because the small small closet distributor decided not to attend. Some good DOES come from a recession.

And of course I still tripped over 2 of the 1,000 rolling carts/sample wagons, but don't get me started on that topic!!!

[jimknecht]

Chris Miller said:

Instead of me explaining things, Jim

Nope, you are not getting off that easy. You answer my question. How does ASI & PPAI differ in their requirements for entry into the industry? You are attacking ASI... why not PPAI?

Chris Miller said:

How is selling direct online any different than using ASI to help put you in touch with end users?

What enduser has ASI ever had contact me? Not a one, so why would you state that?

Chris Miller said:

Please don't keep going down the path of defending ASI and acting like you dont KNOW for a fact that they are diluting the industry with part timers who want to give our business a try. You've been on here for many years and know what the rest of us know. Did you forget their giant ad in the computer magazine?!?! :mad:

I will defend anyone or organization that is misrepresented. Question is, why are you & Mark attacking them? Where is the proof they have less security than any other show? Where is the proof they are diluting this industry any more than PPAI? Why is it wrong for them to attract, what you consider unqualified folks, yet perfectly fine for you to open DT for public consumption?

Please don't hide behind words, you two. Answer my questions.

[Chris Miller]

Jim,

I am not hiding behind anything - i'm pretty sure im the most transparent person you have ever met. :)

I still don't understand how you can be against sellers selling direct, but you don't mind ASI doing it. Oh that's right, ASI puts money in your pocket, and direct selling suppliers are your competition. :eek:

There is no need to get into ASI's business practices in this thread. They have been WELL documented over the years on this site. I feel like you only brought that up to divert the discussion. ASI promotes to anyone and everyone, and gives ASI numbers to some of the TOP buyers in the world. That's a dead horse, move on.

DT is nothing like ASI or PPAI. This site does not give end users access to supplier info. It's also not setup to attract, or promote our industry to other industry's, stay at home moms, or people who "might want to open a small business". Don't compare SOME AREAS of DT being readable to the public, with what PPAI and ASI does, which is to reach out and bring new people into the industry.

ASI is the only one being talked about because this thread was started about an ASI show. Of course PPAI and ASI are both in the same business. I do consider one much more ethical than the other though.

[jimknecht]

Chris Miller said:

I still don't understand how you can be against sellers selling direct, but you don't mind ASI doing it. Oh that's right, ASI puts money in your pocket, and direct selling suppliers are your competition. :eek:

Dude, you are going to have to explain this. Yes, I am against suppliers selling direct... aren't you & everyone else here? What does that have to do with this thread? How does ASI sell direct? Hasn't their business model always been to attract participants to this industry, and sell them services? What has changed? What gave you are right to enter but now not others?

Chris Miller said:

There is no need to get into ASI's business practices in this thread.

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? No need to get into ASI's business practices, when the title & intent of this thread is to discredit an industry participant with innuendo & half truths? The very thread title asks a question involving ASI's business practice... yet you think there is no need to discuss this? What do you want to discuss, my recipe for red beans & rice? Then Mark states stuff was stolen at the show. Do you really think this is the first time? Do you really think stuff hasn't been stolen from folks at the EXPO. Heck, last time I was there, someone walked up to a booth near us & took hundreds of dollars worth of product.

Then Mark asks, if this is the kind of show we should support. What kind of question is that? What does this show do that is so different than others? Funny how it is always brought up that I support ASI, yet no one questions Mark's motives, when he is rather involved with ASI's competition... PPAI. Why would a supplier rep state that that show is not worthy of attending because the distributors there are unqualified? Is that something you would expect any supplier to state in public?

[Allan]

Hey Mark,

Thieves are everywhere. I was at my monthly regional meeting last week and went to an education program presented by a supplier rep such as yourself and she passed around some items for us to handle and pass to the next person. Long and short of it was that two of the items never made it back to her. SO following your logic, I guess we should not support our regionals since there seems to be a serious lack of security. Does this represent your view?

When I was in China, our group visa was stolen. Do you know what the Chinese restaurant management told us?? "Oh none of our people would steal. It must have been that Korean tour group we had in the room." Guess what....WE WERE THE KOREAN TOUR GROUP. So it goes to practice everywhere. Thieves will be thieves in any environment.

Your reported items of personal property being stolen are sad to hear about but I think that there is no amount of security will prevent a crime of opportunity. Our job is to reduce those opportunities.

I would love to be able to let my car idle on a cold winter's day but it is against the law now because people steal cars. I would love to be able to pump my gas before going into the attendant to pay but it is against the law to turn on a pump without prepayment. Why? Because people steal gas. These laws punish me and not the thief but it reduces the crimes of opportunity. Your friends should have not had items where they could be lifted. Some supplier booths are glued down now. And even those are still pilfered. It is not the lack of security that is the reason but rather lack of parenting!!!

[FindingPromo]

jimknecht said:

Mark, are you saying all those thousands of distributors that attended ASI Dallas were not qualified?

These are your words, not mine, but since you were there, you know more than I do . . . . . . .

Jim,

Spin what you want out of what I said, and I'll let others consider how and why you extrapolated what you did that way. Even though I was not in Dallas, I am very sure there were some, most likely many, very qualified people there. The examples of the Press for the show, was sent out by the show producers, and that is where I saw the News Report - after it was sent out to show how the show was promoted.

I viewed the news report that was full of information that they were provided by the show producer, then the show producer decided to send out this and other print, and television press examples of how the show was covered.

And yes, I do know for a fact, that very unqualified, untrained "industry participants" regularly attend some roadshows. This is what is bound to happen when anyone particular group actively invites new distributors without providing basic training

A) Regularly many of these I mention do not have any idea about the industry code system.

B) As someone who has invested in some roadshows before off an on for the last 10 years of my business, I know first hand, that there are many new participants that regularly are invited on the show floor without training. I do not feel that is our responsibility as Suppliers or Reps to actually be the first to train them, on coding, not to scoop boatloads of samples off the tables, and to not be asking for EQP before even knowing the ABC's. These basics should be trained via the industry show producers inviting them and/or the Distributors or Franchisors that credential them onto the floor.

C) I do know there are many qualified folks that attend these events, my statements and the thread was about those New Entrants to the industry, that are credentialed onto the floor.

Allan,

Having three different Suppliers' ladies' handbags stolen from the back of their booths from under the table is a problem anywhere. When the show producer then told them that they were going to "Add security" the next day, I guess that's O.K. but still think that it was sad that they were stolen to begin with. Yes, I agree, crime happens everywhere, and sometimes security and even locks, only keep the honest people out.

jimknecht said:

Mark, . . . . Do you know for a fact they had inadequate security? Compared to what? I was there & saw security at entrance doors & walking the aisles?

By the fact that those that had their handbags stolen, were told that the show would have more security added, then I would say yes, that the show producer agreed that they had inadequate security . . .


I am sure that there were plenty of very good meetings and re-solidifying of business relationships at this particular show. There are always improvements that everyone can do to just about anything that is done. Here I feel that I have identified a couple of improvements that shows like these can complete to make them better.

Edited by FindingPromo, 14 February 2010 - 08:37 PM.

[Allan]

Mark, What kind of security would you want? Someone to stand at EACH booth? There is no way security would prevent it. I have worked tradeshows before and I have not seen any security that would prevent someone from stealing if that person was bent on that activity. Behind a booth is not secure, as you know, there are other booths behind each other and if not, there is a crawl space that would allow some one who is familiar with the set up to be able to steal. I do not appreciate your implication that it was someone that was a distributor or someone that was attending the show was the one who stole. Perhaps it was another Rep or even a worker at the Center. Still I can't imagine what security you were wanting. Perhaps the full body scanners at the exits and entrances? Everyone at the Dallas ASI show was scanned as they entered. If they were not, then they could have gotten in around any security that you put in place.

Also, I would love to see the proof form those people you "heard about". I really think it is dangerous for you to toss about hearsay and assume it to be true without any proof. Do you have proof? I guess it is ok since you are all the way over on the west coast to sit there and pass judgment. I do not think you are being responsible in this accusation. And what the H e l l could PPAI or ASI or Showcase or any other show do to prevent the theft (if they really did occur)?


You stated that ASI was going to put security in place after the fact. Is this the first tradeshow that a theft has taken place? Again, what kind of security was ASI talking about? I saw DPD (Dallas Police Department) walking the show floor BOTH DAYS! I was there BOTH DAYS. You are taking someone's word that a theft took place and that ASI said that security would be put in place. What kind of security more than what was already in place the FIRST day? I do not think that ASI thought that they had inadequate security anymore than we as a nation did before 9/11. You can never prevent someone that has theft on their mind and to blame the show is idiotic. I wonder if there ever has been a theft at PPAI EXPO and if they added security after the fact. I guess we will never know because people do not tell the whole story when trying to build a "strawman" argument to prove a point.

The theft of the 3 purses do not reflect badly on the show sponsor but rather on the fact that the women should have had left their purses in a more secure location. Perhaps there should be a law that outlaws leaving purses on a tradeshow floor since it is not the responsibility of the person who left the purse and the person who stole it but rather the show's sponsor. :confused:

[Allan]

FindingPromo said:

B) As someone who has invested in some roadshows before off an on for the last 10 years of my business, I know first hand, that there are many new participants that regularly are invited on the show floor without training. I do not feel that is our responsibility as Suppliers or Reps to actually be the first to train them, on coding, not to scoop boatloads of samples off the tables, and to not be asking for EQP before even knowing the ABC's. These basics should be trained via the industry show producers inviting them and/or the Distributors or Franchisors that credential them onto the floor.

Mark,

I am amazed at your ignorance or arrogance.

I was new to the business once and as a NON-sponsored distributor, I went to the PPAI show my first year and was, as you say, "trained" by suppliers and reps about the industry. I got into this business by buying a USED Press-a-Print pad printer and realized that there is a better way. I guess I am a non-qualified distributor since I do not work for one of the "Big Boys".


Now the "scoopers" are always gong to be there but if a person is in the business to learn, then why would you not take time to train them? Why is it the responsibility of the show sponsor?

Oh that's right you are only interested in increasing sales for your suppliers and really think that distributors are in the way with their demands of not whoring out to their customers by plastering the supplier's names all over the material and boxes.

[FindingPromo]

Allan,

What you refer to as ignorance and arrogance, I simply state as my opinion.

Just because I have an opinion, as to where a Distributor should get the basics of the industry training, does not equate to me being ignorant or arrogant, but again if that's your opinion, you have the perfect right to it.

In any industry if someone wants to succeed, they should do a little homework and or ask questions, I just personally have the opinion as an investing Supplier of both my time company and limited resources to invest it and support, events with a higher percentage of proven, qualified traffic. My opinion, and I always expect other opinions, and would not refer contrasting ones as arrogant or ignorant.

Do Distributors regularly target customers of limited qualification to buy from them? I think not.

I do never show disrespect to any attendee whenever I can. When I find someone who clearly has limited qualifications I provide some limited time, and refer them to professionals that are consultants, trainers or in some cases their supervisors, when I know the companies they are involved in.

Edited by FindingPromo, 14 February 2010 - 09:24 PM.